Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. lbs., with a respectable GVW of 15,000 lbs. 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. Applications. This is the abridged version of my problem. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Before answering that question, its worth noting the role that Sonnax plays in the converter rebuilding business. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. Seventh 1.00 GM 6L80 transmission - Wikipedia In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E Second 2.99 4L80E vs 6L80E - Are two extra gears worth it? - Pro-Touring.com While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. US Shift Stand-Alone Transmission Controllers Application RWD & 4WD / AWD A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. RECALLS! In 1987, he assumed the role of editor for Hot Rod magazine before returning to his first love of writing technical stories. Learn how your comment data is processed. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. Comparing the two cross sections, you also quickly see that the orientation of the spring dampers is different. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . TIPM Problems! 8l90 vs 10l80 - Surabayapestcontrol.com The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). Developing any new technology will cost an absolute ton of money, which why its not unusual for car companies to co-develop things like chassis and transmissions. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. 3. JT. 10 Speed 10L80 Transmission Build! ATFSpeed - YouTube The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. PDF Service Bulletin - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. The TCI six-speed version has a few special additions to it. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. GM Transmission Dimensions - Pace Performance The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. Maximum shift speed is 6500 RPM. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. How quickly time passes by. It looks nearly identical to the 6L90. What came first: the chicken or the egg? It's a longitudinal transmission (that's what the L in 6 L 80E stands for). The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . 4L60E (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 4L60E / 4L65E (w/ removable bellhousing) All LS1 Type, 4L80E 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), 6L80E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), 6L90E 2006-Later (w/ removable bellhousing), Splines (output shaft)Pan Bolts (number of), Transmission Fluid Capacity (see also capacity of fluid in the converter here). High Performance Transmission Rebuilds & Upgrades | Circle D Thx All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. That year, for the first time, the 10R80 ten-speed transmission was available with the 2.7-liter EcoBoost V6, 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, or 5.0-liter Coyote V8 engine options and was even an option with their popular Raptor model. 10R80 transmission swap? | SVTPerformance.com The 10-speed first appeared in the 2017 Camaro ZL1 backing up the 650-horsepower, supercharged 6.2L engine. So you would need to begin with a 2008 or newer Express to be able to convert from a 4L80 to a 6L80 / 6L90. Ask Away! with Jeff Smith: Upgrading 6L80/6L90 Transmissions for Boost And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal. Engine torque rating increases minimally, but the output torque rating of the transmission jumps up by nearly 220 ft. lbs. If you have your heart set on a six-speed automatic to back your LS, consider TCI's 6X transmission. $ 439.00 Select options. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Tap-2000 | 6l80e/6l90e Tap Shifter Kit Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. Shop Finder As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. DT-51190 Transmission Oil Fill Adapter Tool Alt - Freedom Racing Tool All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. What is your recomendation for towing? PATC Sells GM 6L80E Transmissions, Torque Converters and Parts GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. Also since the transmission is different the gearing and tuning are naturally different. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. You are browsing camaro6. *$3,245 does not include any Hard Part damage, Torque Converter or TCM/ECM tuning. 10R80 transmission swap? Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). I believe AFM has been replaced with DFM Not for fact nojust was basing on the truck. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. Why is that? 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification | Drivetrain Resource Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. Trying to decide if its worth upgrading for the 10L80 alone. 2nazty New Member. PML GM 6L90, 6L90E Deep Transmission Pan - PML YourCovers GM 6L45E 6L50E 6L80E 6L90E TCM2650 transmission controller harness There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. Put simply, its the converter. The following drivability conditions will be present when this type of DTC is stored. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. document.write("- "+yr); Note, all models will have a warmer. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. PDF PIP5477C 10L90 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmission Exchange Program The same shift strategy that is used for the upshift may be applied during a downshift. Third 2.15 However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 10l80 transmission for sale | eBay Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. Chevrolet, Buick & GM Engines into the Jeep Ford 1.8L - 2.5L "Pinto" Engines into the Jeep 4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants). The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. It is a dog in the summer time. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. This pan fits the GM 6L90, 6L90E transmission, typically found on these vehicles: . Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. 4L80 to 6L80 swap - HPTuners Production Began 2017 We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. var d=new Date(); If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. 6L80/90E Swap FAQS | Chevy Trailblazer SS Forum Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. GM states, ". But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? While converter failures are not uncommon with other transmission families, you are thinking that this is really becoming a pattern for the 6L80, 6L90. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. 10L80 Performance Transmission Rebuilds | Circle D Transmission Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Would love your thoughts, please comment. It is a heavy-duty version of the 6L80 six-speed automatic, with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total, and a strengthened output gearset, that uses wider gears than the 6L80. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. Aisin AY6 6-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. TH400, TH200-4R, TH700-R4, 4L60, 4L60E (without converter), 6L80E Fluid capacity with 258 mm converter, 6L80E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter, 6L90E Fluid capacity with 300 mm converter. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. LS2/TH400 vs L92/6L80e | Pirate 4x4 This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. See how the ratios have swapped places? Transmission Fluid Change flush 2007-2012 Silverado GMC Sierra 6L80E The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. Then it can upshift to one of its three overdrive gears for maximum fuel economy. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. This is a normal and desired behavior. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. I would be willing to get it rebuilt, but want it to function like it should (not back to the way it came from GM). You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. Joined Feb 11, 2007 Messages 11 Location . Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. The dipstick has three different fill marks, A, B and C. These fill marks are model dependent and should be verified with factory information when the fluid level is checked (Figure 11). Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. Reply. To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. 11 Things You Need to Know about Ford & GM's 10-Speed Transmission The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. At this point, the converter rebuilder is faced with either finding another core that he hopes will have good components or purchasing a Sonnax forged cover GM-CC-13 and forged piston GM-DA-17P. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 Gm hydro 10 speed. In the TMBX, the damper is on the transmission side of the clutch piston, and in the JMBX, the damper is located on the engine side of the piston. In fact, there are absolutely no cast-iron components, including the 10L80 stator support. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! $ 158.00 Select options. Wait 2 seconds. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. New Ford/GM 10-Speed Automatic Transmission: 10 Things to Know Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. Solution This 10L80 transmission problem could be the result of a failed oil cooler line fitting retaining bolt. Eighth 0.85 Subscribe Now Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. Now he serves as a regular contributor to OnAllCylinders. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. Reactions: me32. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. By Wayne Colonna. 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System - Transmission Digest 4. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. should check for clearance. 6L80E / 6L90E 4-5-6 Clutch. And now, with some of these transmissions coming out of warranty, the aftermarket will soon begin to see issues that occur with them beyond their first years of life during their aging process. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. $499.00. vehicle weights. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. I have a 2wd 2000 regular cab stepside bed Silverado that used to make closer to 600-650 wheel horsepower with the D1-SC Procharger and 4L80E. The gearing spread is a very capable 6.04, with ratios in each gear as follows: First: 4.02, Second: 2.36, Third: 1.53, Fourth: 1.15, Fifth: .085, Sixth: 0.67, Reverse: 3.06. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? CDT 10L80 Bench Rebuild. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. yr=d.getFullYear(); And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). TSB 18-NA-026 Transmission fluid leak It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. So whats the most common failure thats seen time and again with these? Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear.
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